I know man. It’s just my opinion but for what he does I feel like at #4 we should go for higher upside.
If we trade down then I’d be fine with it, I don’t hate him but I don’t know if he’s got the ability to be a star player.
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Yeah, I’m where you are Coach. We were “lucky” with the ping pong balls to get #4 (otherwise we’d be picking 7), so I would like to swing for someone with exceptional traits vs. the very good, but extremely safe attributes.
Tre’s elite scoring will absolutely translate. He can gain strength, learn to finish. But the ability to get his shot off and hit tough shots can’t be taught. To be the leading scorer in a historically great SEC year, as a freshman… 20 points in a shorter and much more physical game… He might very well go 3rd.
VJ’s elite athleticism is nothing to brush by. He probably only looks like a straight-line player because he overwhelms people with speed and verticality, so he never had to adjust. You can definitely learn to “wiggle,” change pace, change speed. Those aren’t hard skills to learn, just getting the footwork down and muscle memory will elevate him way above his peers. He might be more of a catch and shoot 3 point shooter vs. off the dribble, but Melo is gonna be handling the ball at the end of games anyway.
I’ve said my piece about Ace in other threads, I can’t see him flaming out. Hall of Fame potential is something you have to take a chance on.
Giving Kon the benefit of the doubt, I was trying to imagine how his game will translate to the league. This is best case scenario (which is actually really good, and I do like both Bogdanovic’s a lot). Bojan is listed at 6’7, so he may be a good bit bigger than Kon, which helps his effectiveness and may lessen what Kon could be. But watching these highlights, they move very similarly.
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I can agree with that coach. I think the main thing is that all three of those guys are going to be entertaining and bring something amazing. In Tre’s case, even if you’re mediocre or a loser, scoring is entertaining. I’ve made no secret of the fact that run TMC was the pinnacle basketball entertainment for me haha. But they were never going to win a title.
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Does this give anyone concern about drafting Ace?
Bailey is scheduled to work out in Philadelphia at the end of this week, and we’ll see if he’s able to sway the tides in his favor.
The feedback from his interviews at the draft combine in Chicago was not all that positive, with some teams expressing concern about his lack of preparation and focus. NBA executives sayBailey has been polarizing in internal front office conversations because of questions about his feel for the game and lack of polish, creating a wider draft range than initially anticipated. Bailey’s predraft workout strategy has perplexed some observers, as he has yet to conduct a single known workout to date, having declined invitations from several teams within his draft range. Sources say Bailey’s camp has informed interested teams that they believe he is a top-3 player in the draft, but also seeks a clear pathway to stardom, perhaps feeling comfortable that a team will trade up to get him at Nos. 3 or 4, should he drop.
Some teams question whether Bailey has received assurances of being selected by a team currently outside the top five, to a situation deemed more advantageous from a geographic and playing time perspective.
Bailey is scheduled to conduct a workout with the 76ers later this week, but it’s unclear if he plans to visit any other teams at this stage. Should the Sixers pass on him, he could very well slide to the No. 6 or No. 7 picks, two teams in Washington and New Orleans that are said to be highly intrigued with the 18-year-old’s talent. And both are situations in which there appear to be plenty of minutes and shots to be had. – Givony"
I’ve got some concerns sure, but I would play him off the bench and let him go crazy. With our injury history he would have plenty of chance to get shots. Lol
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Signaling as best we can that we’re gonna draft the Nipple…
From the Athletic David Aldridge - behind the scenes talking to coaches about prospects. Today was the guard focus. I’m only sharing what was said about VJ and Tre for the purposes of this thread.
V.J. Edgecombe | 6-4 guard | 19 years old | Baylor
Western Conference executive No. 2: I think he’s more like Cam Thomas than an all-pro player or something like that. But Edgecombe, to me, has more upside (than Thomas). I like him better offensively — athletically. I like him better defensively. I think he’s more of a versatile, all-around player than Cam is. Probably a little more playmaking. … This kid’s going to score in his own right, too. He isn’t going to be a 12-point-a-game scorer or anything. He’s athletic as hell, so he’s going to get out on the break and get some points there. He’ll do some driving in the half court and get some points there, get fouled. And guys with that profile, who weren’t just horrendous offensive players in college, but who are highly athletic and work at it, they get better offensively in the league. You’ve got unlimited opportunities to work on your game. Everybody’s got practice facilities and the code to get back in. … I’m not saying he’s going to be a perennial all-pro player, but I think he’ll be pretty good. And I’d be surprised if he failed.
College general manager: From the jump, he was a super mature kid. When coaches are talking, eyes on them. Very coachable. Wants to learn, wants to get better. Never late. First in and last to leave. Just things you have to tell guys. Sometimes you’re telling guys who are five- or six-year pros. For him, it came naturally. … Very mature, but there were some things (in FIBA competition) he wasn’t used to, the physicality. If the team has direction and has leadership, he’ll be fine. He’ll be everything they want and more. He’s such a good kid and he’s coachable. At Baylor, they were so quiet at the offensive end in the first half. And in the second half, he just takes over.
Western Conference scout No. 1: From the end of the season until now, his jumper has gotten better. It was flat during the year. … When he came to Chicago and shot, I was like, whoa. He doesn’t have that flat shot no more. He’s gonna be all right. Because he’s so athletic. He can handle the rock and pass the ball. I’m not comparing him to Ant (Anthony Edwards), but whoever gets him is gonna be surprised how he can put the ball on the floor and make plays for others. Look at him at Baylor. He wasn’t hogging. He wasn’t even the main offense. He was scoring, shot it OK. But he always made passes and made plays for others. And he can defend. I think he can guard twos and ones. He’s a combo. Second side ballhandler. I think he’ll be able to guard ones and twos easy. And then, later, against certain threes, if they go small-ball three. He can guard 6-6 guys — some of them. And he’s not gonna back down. He’s a tough kid, comes from a tough area.
Eastern Conference executive No. 1: To me, I think he could be the second-best player in this draft. He’s a little raw basketball experience-wise, but he’s a great kid. Stephon Castle was Rookie of the Year. The biggest reason was he was able to defend right away. This guy can do the same thing. He’s not a bad shooter.
Tre Johnson | 6-5 wing | 19 years old | Texas
Eastern Conference scout No. 1: He has a chance to be one of the top-three players. He has the talent to do it. And I think he has the mindset. He’s been a really hard player to like. I’ve watched him for three years. He’s a hard player to like, because he seems like he’s a selfish player. … He wants to win, and he tries to win, but the only way he thinks he can win is doing it himself. He didn’t have a good team in Texas, but he’s been on some good teams when he was bad. He was on the USA Basketball (U-19) team in Europe. His body language and his game didn’t support all the hype he was getting. But this year, I was at some of his best games. In the end … he’s just f—– good. He can score. On a team devoid of scoring, there’s something to be said for that. … The shot-making is going to give him a chance. It’s going to be about fit for him. Like Brandon Miller, maybe, where he goes to a place and plays really well. But if he goes to a s—-y team, he might look s—-y. If he has a couple of good vets around that can help him and that he respects, he has a chance to be good. Tre is the hardest worker, from everybody I’ve talked to, at Texas.
Eastern Conference scout No. 2: The impressive thing about him is you look at his stats, for a freshman, what he shot, and with the whole scouting report geared to stop him. He can shoot that thing. What they’re talking about Ant (Edwards), that Ant needs to learn how to play with his back to the basket? Tre has that shot in his game. That was impressive, to watch a young guy be able to back a guy down and shoot that. He’s not the best athlete, but when you shoot like that, that’s the great equalizer. He’s not 6-6 or 6-7, but he’ll be able to get his shot off. I’ve seen him, the UConn game, he made a pass that he went baseline, and made a pass to one of his teammates for a wide-open 3. You’ve got to have some selfishness, too. I’d rather have to tune a guy down for being selfish than have to tune him up and say you need to be more selfish. I’ve seen him get off the ball. … I just worry about him playing against more athletic guys off the bounce. But off the catch, one-two dribbles? He’s one of the best doing that.
Western Conference executive No. 2: He’s been the same player his whole life. He’s got to be a guy who gets the ball and gets a lot of shots. He’s going to have the ball, there’s going to be some standing around and watching him. He’ll score in the NBA. I don’t have any doubt. But I wonder how valued a player he’ll be in a few years. Is the league going to be clamoring for him in a few years? This guy’s never going to be a big-time defender. It’s get it and go. When it’s going, he’s impressive. I question the makeup. He’s so pronounced in who he is that that’s who he’s going to be at our level. … (but) Tre Johnson’s too pronounced as a shooter-scorer to fail, either. Look at Cam Thomas. The league wasn’t crazy about him. He goes in the 20s, and he’s not failing. He’s easily playing 10-plus years now.
College assistant coach No. 3 (his team played Texas): Probably going to go with Tre (over Fears). A lot of people say he’s selfish, but he’s not, really. He will make the right play at times. Sometimes he does, but you expect that with a guy with his talent. He had 90 assists to 60 turnovers. He was passing it well. He didn’t force it. Fears would force. Both are extremely good in ball screens.
Eastern Conference executive No. 1: Johnson’s good. Probably the best shooter in the draft. Probably top five, top 10. He’s improved, too. His attitude’s improved. His game is more well-rounded than it was a year ago. How many really good shooters are a little selfish? That doesn’t bother me.
I meant to post a day or so ago, but I really don’t like the intel and reports I’m hearing about Ace. A week or so ago I predicted that Ace could fall down to pick 5 or so.
Ace sounds very immature and I think he and Coach Lee are like oil and water. That attitude and mindset is not the culture coach Lee and the organization are working hard to create.
I really do wish we could trade with the spurs somehow and draft Dylan Harper. There’s no halfway realistic trade situation I can think of that would move the needle for the Spurs.
I can be talked into drafting any of these players at 4. VJ, Ace, Tre, Kon. I can absolutely envision Ace falling to Utah at 5. I do wonder if VJ goes at 3 and Charlotte picks between Tre Johnson and Kon.
I’m leaning Tre Johnson.
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We are in a good spot. There is no reason to trade down. All of the guys in our range (Ace, VJ or Tre) are capable of helping. Heck even Kon is capable of helping.
I would assert that all is good.
Devil’s advocate for Ace, it sounds like his representation is pretty shitty so I don’t know if it’s him or the agent that is driven by his behavior. Tough to sift through if you’re really considering picking him.
My point is this as a season ticket holder. If we are going to be “evaluating” again this year then at least can we be entertaining and score in the 110s-120s for most games?
Tre would give us the 3rd amigo to go with Miller and Melo and we can put offensive pressure on people. We wouldn’t stop a soul but it would be fun!
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And to add to what you just said, none of us can speak on these issues with ace objectively. We can only respond to what continues to float around. But these issues with ace seems to be more than a wild rumor floated around by some random guy on twitter.
While we can’t speak with absolute objectivity, I wouldn’t say these concerns are purely conjecture either. And based on what we have to work with, I think it’s fair to say that it doesn’t fit into the culture Coach Lee and co. are trying to forge.
An immature, standoffish, demanding 18 year old is not what this locker room needs. I’ve said this for a few years, but the hornets need mature adults in the locker room. We need maturity and capable leaders. Not demanding, entitled kids on a team trying to build a hard working, winning culture.
It’s why a draft peeve of mine is that players that are 21-23 years old get knocked down in the draft simply because they’re not 18-19 years old. They’re often much more mature.
I’ve heard nothing but positive things about Tre, KJ, and Kon in terms of their maturity, attitudes, work ethic, and commitment. I still believe very much in Ace’s talent level. That’s not my issue. Despite my diatribe, if Ace is the pick-that’s fine. He’s not my first choice, but the talent is there.
I just hope Coach Lee and co. can help this kid mature. Because a lot that’s floating around sounds pretty concerning. I mean, how is Ace going to respond when the hornets aren’t winning? How is Ace going to respond when Coach Lee gets pissed and immediately subs him out? He sure as shit did that with Melo.
I’m not saying it’s true or not but remember especially the weeks leading up to the draft are filled with BS. We’ve seen it over and over.
It’s interesting because on one hand the high end draftees have power in terms of supply side and a ton of incentive career wise to land on certain teams which would increase the chances of helping develop their career.
On the other hand, they aren’t a proven commodity and come across as problematic or even self serving when trying to over control their path.
Sometimes it works out (Kobe Bryant, eli manning, etc) and sometimes it is a spectacular fail (shaddeur)
The information around Ace is outside the scope of BS. If they aren’t doing private workouts, that’s a binary are/are not. To me, there’s sufficient smoke around Ace to be very concerned if he’s our pick.
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I feel it’s probably more representation related than him. I don’t know who his people are, but I’m sure most 18 year olds don’t mind first class flights, food, and hotels while jet-setting to various NBA teams. It’s a dream come true.
And the immaturity label has become superglued to his forehead to a more hyperbolic degree than what is probably actuality:
Sources say Bailey’s immaturity isn’t associated with being a bad person or unruly. They referred to his maturity as “age-appropriate.”
“He’s not immature like a [butthead]. … He’s goofy,” a scout said. “Dancing in line. You are doing drills, he’s dancing. ‘Oh, that’s my song.’ … He’s playful, which is age-appropriate.”
I mean, you may not want goofy when you’re trying to establish a culture, but also doesn’t mean he won’t buy in, or can’t learn, or will force his will onto people.
Overstating (not saying its not there, there is smoke after all) his beige to slightly purplish flags into bright red ones will have you going for the safe and mediocrity enduring picks instead of taking a nice chance at:
“But Bailey is the one if he hits,” the scout said. “If he hits, he’s better than Cooper Flagg. He’s more athletic. If they’re going one-on-one, I got Ace. I might be wrong, but I’m going with Ace.
“But Ace is the only player in the top five that can do everything that teams want,” a league executive said.
“If Ace clicks,” the scout said, “he’s a Hall of Famer.”
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His representation is horrible.