The Clifford hire was a save, so not sure who’s calling it a mastermind, secret gotcha move. Kenny the basketball move seemed good, but his weak wishy-washy character caused the cascade of bad Hornet takes on the social medias.
I get the idea that the Hornets are an incompetent franchise who’s always screwing things up, but if we take away the crazy circumstances outside the two big moves, its not the catastrophe as portrayed.
Kenny Atkinson being a chicken shit and Duren falling in the draft were the two variables which people are jumping on to make it seem worse than what it is. Kenny’s lack of character was fortuitously avoided by us, and now at least we have a coach who can get untalented teams to overachieve. Who’s to say that with talent, he won’t be able to improve from our current baseline. And if Duren is picked by the Spurs or Knicks, then we still improved our center outlook with someone who may be much better.
The only thing I don’t like is the lower value we got from the 13th, would’ve definitely taken a flyer on AJ. I guess I’m feeling like this isn’t a nightmare scenario, we’re in better shape than last year’s 43 win team. I’ll take Cliff at his word that he’s gonna keep the offense at a high pace, while finally helping our defense. And also, the Van Gundy tree coaches first year is normally an improvement from the year before. I think Cliff is a better coach than Stan and Thibs.
Don’t forget to remind them that Duren snubbed us for a workout. Simple, he didn’t want to be here so we didn’t miss out on him. Folks can’t blame the Hornets for that!
Mastermind plan? No. Good recovery - yes. Name one guy w self respect who would accept sloppy seconds? One guy. MDA tried to punk the FO by saying, “You got screwed but I can fix it IF you pay me a couple million more.” The FO would have been absolute b!tches to give in to such extortion.
I am the king of pointing out hypocrisy on this board but I missed this obvious one!
Where is this narrative coming from? Players not working out for teams that their agents never expect them to fall to or beyond where they have promises isn’t a thing. And it happens annually and literally noone is broken up about it.
I think this, plus trading a 2nd round pick to drop down from 45 to 40 while saying “2nd round picks are valuable” are the issues walking away.
The Kenny thing floats the long running reported issue on assistant coaching pay - if it’s true or not, it easily fits the narrative going back at least 4-5 years now.
Kind of hate all this for Mark Williams. He seems like a genuinely good young player, a good player fit, and a great get for our 15th pick. But he’ll be as tied to the DEN lottery protected 1st and Jalen Duren (in the same way that MKG was always tied to Beal) by the larger NBA public.
Yeah… I get the Doren argument that he didn’t want be here, if true… but if that’s the case, draft someone else. Don’t give a the pick away for way less value. That’s what will always piss me off.
The only player i remember complaining about overpaying, as we all did and have, was Batum. Other than that, i struggle remembering feeling like we ever were getting reckless with the money, and i didnt even feel that way until a year after that deal. So, you got the wrong guy.
And you can say hes speaking facts and I’m spinning a narrative, but what i said was also facts… and he’s also spinning his own narrative to defend his coaching style and his reputation… you just choose the narrative you want to ride with, and its clear you want to give Cliff the benefit of the doubt. That’s cool. I’m done with that. Our hometeams have wasted years of fans’ lives getting it wrong. And again, name the last time you a) saw a pro franchise rehire a previously fired head coach back to the same position and b) how successful was it? I’ll wait. So, excuse me for not being enthusiastic. I’ve seen this movie before and read the book before that. I didnt need a sequel. His shortcomings are evident, and to wrap it up, simply, as I said previously, we interviewed a likely HOF coach, with a proven track record and system who came within a game/series of the finals multiple times, and we instead hired a guy who had no job opportunities elsewhere whose history indicates his ceiling is a 6th to 8th seed that gets destroyed in the first round.
Again, I will hope for the best, but I’m not apologizing for not believing in this move. I want Cliff to succeed now because hes our coach, and as he goes, so do we… but, I do NOT believe it was the right hire. We will see.
To be clear, I was speaking more generally about criticisms of MJ and the Hornets and also about Clifford’s relationship with younger players. It’s a general trend I’ve noticed regarding the Hornets. The media constantly criticizes the Hornets for contracts like Gordan’s and Batum’s and simultaneously call us cheap with players too. It makes no sense. If we do end up giving Miles the max, it’ll be interesting to see the media’s reaction.
Ahhh! Ok. Hope i didnt come off as too hostile. As that was not my intent.
I agree the media has spun things that way for a long time, and generally I dont agree, but it is my personal opinion, that this offseason the “Hornets are cheap” angle is likely true. I think the Clifford hire had to be because of money and punting the 13th pick for essentially nothing was also money-related… because boy, i bet if Mitch could go back in time a week, that situation would have gone down a lot different. Smh…
Me? Not a lot beyond the surface stuff. Corbin coached under Sloan and iirc wasn’t bad when he took over after Jerry stepped. He represents a 15 year vet playing on the bench and someone outside the Van Gundy tree. I like that in several ways.
Beyer, to me, feels more of that Van Gundy - they all met at summer coaching camp - origin. He wasnt really remarkable here (2013-14) that I recall. Like i don’t recall him being in stories like other assistants in making real impacts. And he went to join SVG in both DET and NOP. Just feels like he’s part of the VG/Cliff posse and not much other.
I always thought the ‘can’t bring their own assistants’ narrative was completely overblown.
My thought was we wanted to keep some of the coaches on who have helped develop our players and built trusting relationships with them.
I can believe that we weren’t willing to pay top dollar for top assistants, which worries me. Don’t pay over the top, but do pay for quality. Again though, conjecture on my part.