Game 12: Baron Davis Night Vs. the Knicks

This is almost a must win for us. We’re 3-8 now. I know we’re not a playoff team, but if we’re going to be looked at as even a semi-serious team, we need to take care of a decent, but not unbeatable team at home.

I feel like we’ll play well, but I’ve felt wrong before. But if the guys have any pride at all, they need to come out and play hard all night long.

Are we a “semi-serious” team, though? With the lack of moves from the FO, and getting clowned by Atkinson last season, surely we are a “lolz” team.

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I think we are semi-serious in intention, just the results are more lol, smh, wtf, ftsihebiatfu (f this s, I hate everything, blow it all the f up)

Originally sent in Game 12: Knicks at Hornets



PJ and Gordon still nowhere to be seen

Also Brunson on fire

That was a good pass by Gordon

pj pj pj smh


I like the way we pull Miller when he's red hot. That's a great way to get everyone else hot too, right?

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Leading scorer of the night with the 5th most minutes. Makes perfect sense

I remember when Thor and Theo gave us nothing as starters. Now pj and Gordon are giving us nothings for a premium price. Excellent


melo putting in work


I can’t wait to watch these games again when Bally Sports experiences the sweet release of death.

I am relegated to ESPN gamecast

and scotch


Mitchell Robinson 9 off rebounds, Hornets 3

Credits where credits due, Miles playing unexpectedly good for someone who hasn't played in over a year.

If only he wasn't a POS


Miller and Bridges should start going forward

Terry and PJ would provide scoring for the 2nd unit

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We sure don't cover the corners well


Man PJ… this is why people were wringing their fingers in the offseason with his resigning

errr wringing their hands

either way… get it together man


Fun watching Miller and Ball tonight. I wish we could stop the Knicks from scoring. Can’t get closer than 8… please guard the 3 point line…. Please?

And came please get a strong player in the paint?


Is it time to start discussing 2024 NBA Draft Prospects?

Seems like we will be a high lottery team.


Haven't sat down yet to watch. Will soon. Looking at box score I am excited to watch miller.

Again haven't seen a second of the game but it looks like another melo aau effort. The three Knicks guards have 80% of their points.


You think Lamelo has guarded them? Lol

Divencenzo having the game of his life and Brunson has been guarded by Miller

Lamelo has been one of our only guys exerting effort

But blame him

Also, that Offensive foul on Miller was BS


Like I said, I haven't seen a second. My point is that melo allows this team to just coast into aau type ball. He Nevers leads the team into exerting it's will on the other team. My theory is that other teams plans are to just induce this early in the game and just easily outscore them. All the while, the hornets never ever dig in to win a game. It starts with the max level pg leader.


Chef do we look at the same box score? You realize that two players that get the big bucks have 4 pts combined? If they would play all 82 games, they cost the team ~$600k, so this game $150k per point


Also, can't think of a worse matchup for miller than brunson. Terrible game plan


Note: There is no way Gordon plays all 82

PJ just made a triple, so ~$85k per point


Well yes, I do understand that which is why I didn't want PJ back and have been saying Hayward needed traded a long time ago. It's also why I don't think terry should be on the roster.

Again again, haven't watched yet. But melo is really high on my "good stats on and team, not a winning player" radar


Chef Lamelo and Miller are the only reason that we didnt lose by 40


I'll comment outside of the chat to keep my emotions in check lol


100%. Look I am Melo fan, and obviously biased, but it is very unfair to say he didn't give effort. In multiple instances he was diving and fighting, but from the rest of the team only Miller and Bridges look bought in

This is going to be a long post, so settle in.

It’s obvious there has to be some changes made. The owners have identified the core as Melo, Miller, and Mark Williams. That’s cool with me. We know Hayward won’t be resigned, and they probably aren’t keen on resigning Miles unless he takes a hometown discount for loyalty.

Rozier and PJ are signed to reasonable contracts, but I’m not sure if they can be starters on a playoff team. We are missing two starters in my opinion. We just saw the future tonight with Miller and Melo going off, but who can play off of them? Miles would be the type of guy that would fit well, but once again, off the court mess is a huge variable.

It seems like every NBA team has a damn knockdown shooter where his job is to nail threes off of ball movement. We need a modern day Dell Curry, point blank and period.

Out of the rest of our bench brigade, Nick Smith Jr. I think has a bright future. He plays with the right effort and attitude and has some real talent. I think he can be a major rotation player. I don’t have a ton of confidence in Bryce or Thor right now because I don’t see anything they do exceptionally well. Cody I have just written off because apparently no one in the media can ask about him to give us a damn update.

We also need to do something defensively. I respect the hell out of Cliff and I think he’s a good coach, but the message isn’t getting through or the scheme just isn’t the right fit for what teams are doing now.

This stretch has been frustrating because everything comes hard for us offensively and the teams we are playing are veteran guys who have been through the wars and their shit is clockwork already early in the season.

Last thing, clean house on the training staff and expand it!


As an aside, "It's Miller Time!" exhorting and trying to inspire his teammates speaks to a culture shift needing to happen. That shouldn’t have to come from a rookie. Vets that take each game as a job and can’t find competitive spirit are guys I don’t want on my team. When we see up and down games from certain players, I wonder how much do they really want to win?


Cliff needs to go. If no replacement is out there, roll with the interim coach. Then the whole staff at the end of the season.

GM needs to go.

Trades need to happen. They need to manufacture a way to get a top 3 pick this year and quit losing afterwards. Embrace the suck but position the team for a reset around melo, Williams and miller


Chef, I understand your premise about the AAU style, but I think that’s too simplified on the pro level. The issue isnt the pace, it’s the lack of half court defense on the 3 point shots.

Especially since cliff said one of his main goals this year was to increase pace and be more efficient, which we are. But we are just about last in every defensive metric. Melo getting sloppy a few times and rushing may lead to a couple transition baskets, but getting our ass kicked every time a team starts swinging the ball around the perimeter is a symptom of a completely different disease.

Melo and miller were the only ones playing hard tonight, along with Miles. Mark did give effort, but was negated by Mitchell. There’s a great highlight you’ll appreciate of Melo diving on the floor to save it inbounds, with Miller diving for the ricochet on the floor to tap it to our guy, ending in a Melo 3.

This loss is all on G.J. Hayshington. Or Peedon Washward. Nothing on offense, nothing on d. no point in playing.

The one good thing, we’ve identified a 3 person core for maybe the first time in franchise history. With a likely top 5 pick coming. Absolutely need to find a 3 point gunner, a rugged vet that’s been through the wars and just knows how to play.

New coach and new gm are priority. Mitch should not be involved for the trade deadline, we need someone to come in and evaluate now. And I’m still on the Coach Bud upgrade during the season before another team beats us to the punch like Atlanta last year with Snyder.


Good to see that I was not off-base. I agree with this 100%, Melo-Miller-Miles were the ones with effort, and Mark was trying but not too much. Maybe he was told to not foul given Richards injury/absence.

Coaching and FO needs to change asap. I am ok with keeping Cliff, but new management should change the FO/Mitch asap.

Yes I agree. Perhaps I am not affording melo enough learning curve grace. He didn’t go to college and is still under 23 years old

By aau style, I mean the coax him into forgetting that he needs to ensure his guys are playing to their strengths and to the strength of style. Again, my pg expectations are sky high and right now melo is just not cutting it for me leadership wise. Again, probably unfair by me.

He plays hard. I see that every game. He makes a ton of really good plays but also a ton of absolutely terrible, momentum killing plays.

His defense is terrible. But honestly, when the entire roster has failed to play good defense for almost all of cliffords time here (both times), it’s more than fair to blame the system. Clifford never adapted to the change in the league after 2016-17.

Spot on guys. Great assessment. Everything needs to change. The sooner the better. Owners need to make HP their advisors.

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Cliff has to be on the hot seat at this point

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Age is our cores biggest problem . Melo is trying to step up in so many areas it’s hard to see improvment in any . To me his three looks a lot better not releasing from the hip. I see effort on defense still a lot of work to do in that area. Learning his core will help shot selection. He’s not but 22 but has a ton of talant.
Miller reminds me of Butler with his attitude. A rookie wanting everone to step up including his self and expects the efort from everone. Both these guys is going to be good if they can play together.
Williams is going to be good to but needs another year to season and learn. Clifford is not the coach for him at all.
Miles fit’s real well with this young core and could be a missing piece of he can stay out of trubble.
Last a three point snipper and a back up point who can knock down the three could help.
Last a coach who can get these guys to buy in NOT CLIFF makes this a good team long term.


I feel like Brunson does that do us every time we play him. He did it on DSJ last year. Pretty good tight defense but makes tough shots with hands in his face.

Another one of those games where we make a run to get back in it, but every time the other team shuts the door-usually with a barrage of threes. Several games this year.

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I agree with a lot of what’s been said. We have a lot of issues as we don’t really do anything consistently well, but the most pressing issue is the defense. With Miles back and once Terry gets healthy, we’ll have plenty of guys who can score, even if PJ and Hayward go AWOL occasionally. But until we decide to change what we’re doing defensively and do a better job guarding the 3 we won’t win.


And this.

We simply aren’t going to be able to outscore teams giving up the number of 3s we give up. Guys like Dame and Brunson are going to do their thing. But it’s the Kisperts, D’vincenzos, Beasleys and Shamets of the world that are killing us. It’s not a coincidence that average players consistently have career nights against us. The type of sagging defense we play that’s predicated on guys helping and then being expected to close out on open shooters doesn’t work. At least not with our personnel. And to see that continue to happen night after night and not make any adjustments is ultimately a failure of the coaching staff.