The Grizzlies Game

Hornets Talk
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Yeah, you definitely were the one who always was able to find a positive spin on things. If I didn’t know about the name change after the site takeover, I probably wouldn’t know you were the same person.

This season surprisingly hasn’t stressed me out one bit (not counting the offseason, my hair was on fire during the summer shit show). I’ve been watching the games in a complete zen like status.

I want them to be in the top 4 of the lottery to maximize their winning chances. But I don’t need to cheer for them to lose and get angsty when they win. I fully cheer for them to win games, knowing that they won’t get enough of those this year to matter, and when they lose, its great to keep us in position. It’s weird, but I feel good with either outcome.

I of course don’t want to see them spanked every night, and they’ve generally been pretty competitive in most of the games. Memphis is one of those special teams that takes pleasure in ass kicking, they won’t let up even up 50, so these blowouts aren’t really indicative.

The other thing thats good to me is being able to see who’s got it, and who should move on. PJ looks like he’ll save cap room for us because he’s not worth paying a starter’s salary. He was a sub last year, would’ve been a sub this year except by default. He got 1 rebound last night in 34 minutes at PF. Bane, the t-Rex armed SG got 11. Since its not a one off game for him either, I know its never gonna change. So if he wants starter money, I don’t think we should give it.

Bryce and Williams look like promising rookies. Theo would be a solid backup/emergency PG to have. Jalen and DSJ I would like to keep with the team going forward a couple years to see how much more growth they have in them. Bouk, I’ve seen enough to realize I don’t think has the basketball IQ to be a helpful part of a team. He can’t utilize any of his tools because he doesn’t understand how to use them appropriately, or to make good basketball decisions. Best best case for him would be JR Smith or Monk, and he’s nowhere near as talented as them.

So even without Vic or Scoot, we’re still going to get 1 and maybe 2 really good rookies this draft. So the roster may be a mess, but I think it’s clearer who we should retain going forward and who we should look to move.

It’s good being in Zen land. The injuries and coaching just don’t even bother me this year. Just stay in the top 4, thats all i need. Top 4 baby.

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22

Hornets basketball at its best.

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Where did you find a video of Mitch at the trade deadline?

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@cltblkhscoach, that honestly felt like one of the most embarrassing moments in recent memory. I wasn’t really bothered by Ja at all in that situation, more at us as an organization. It’s like he was holding a bright spotlight on our inability to do anything (on the court in a microcosm but the bigger imagery hit me) for what seemed like an eternity.

It’s been a sad transformation. For the longest time, I have had such a love affair with this team. So, for that time, I have found every way I can to spin and contort my view to explain (to me) what they are doing. But I have simply run out of talent in that department. And even if I was close to it, the Atkinson stuff gave me a Clubber Lang hook to the ribs. And then the Miles situation, another shot to the gut. And the handling of the Miles’ situation (or not really doing anything but “gathering information” part), another gut shot. And the complete capitulation of free agency, the Bouknight parking deck issue, the Bouknight is our number one guy off the bench, ok Bouknight is not going to get any PT at all… all of it, it’s just jab, jab, hook, hook, uppercut, and so on. I cannot explain the team’s actions in any way to make sense for myself any longer.

And I am somewhat like you wrt the watching and wanting wins but not fearing we hit too high a count. It’s the consequences of our longstanding actions that are really creeping in that worry me. I am not scared of the AD draft all over again. I am more worried if we were to score Vic or Scoot in the draft, would we do other things, Kangs-like things, pre-James Jones’ Suns-like things, that would obliterate the value of that generational lottery win and we would somehow with LaMelo and Wemby several years in still see no way to get HCA in the post-season (or even out of the 2nd round)?

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Great googly moogly

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Maybe Cliff hangs that still image over the practice court until the next time we play Memphis

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27

This pretty much captures where I am. We’re losing, yet still competitive and entertaining to watch (most nights) so it’s a win-win.

At a human level I don’t want to see anyone get hurt, but the staggered nature of these injuries has actually worked to our advantage. It has allowed us to tank without needing to have a fire sale to ensure losing, and has provided the opportunity for young/fringe guys to get an extended look (although I’d love to see less Plumlee and more Richards/Williams). And when the losing is done, we’ll have an opportunity to land a talented player, and potentially a generational star, while also having a clearer vision of who fits into our future plans.

My biggest complaint is Clifford’s unwillingness to manage his rotations accordingly, but I suppose I can’t blame him for that if there hasn’t been a clear mandate from the FO to do so. In that case, I blame the FO. But otherwise, this season hasn’t really bothered me at all.

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I think it’s about time to cancel my bally sports sub this month. I love watching the team but they certainly are not worth $20 a month.

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I agree with all your takes, but it’s the bit in bold that has me most concerned. I agree, it is clear who we should retain and who we should move, but I lack faith that the front office sees it the same way we do. That’s where the majority of my angst comes from, a lack of belief in the front office and ownership.

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Any comment from Clifford on this?

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“See, it’s not coaching.” – Steve Clifford

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Im sorry, I still don’t think it’s coaching. We saw at the beginning of the season what defensive boost/effort cliff could give this team, and it worked. And then it stalled and regressed due to injury and lack of players/talent.

I’m not saying coaching isn’t to blame, but guys…there’s not a magic coach that comes and magically changes this roster of players into a good/above average team. The problem is roster/coaching 90/10 IMO. Everyone outside of Lamelo needs to go.

Cliff isn’t to blame for the lack of effort. The team has given up not because of Cliff, but because they suck and they know it.

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To add, I don’t care how you feel about coach Cliff. What is objectively true is that he knows how to get great effort from his players. This is true throughout his career. This isn’t the magical year that coach Cliff stopped being able to do that. It’s the roster.

You don’t have to believe me. Listen to the players. Even last year. Coach JB, coach Cliff, Terry rozier and others say it. To the effect of, “no more excuses we just have to do it (executing, blocking out, rebounding, defense, effort). And Terry just recently made the SAME comments this year.

It’s the roster. It’s not good. Say what you will about Cliff, but he can really get a lot of out players. He did at the beginning of the year, and off and on afterwards, but kept losing-often close games until recently. The team had given up. They’re just not good. It’s the same shit over and over again.

The front office has finally got to wake the fuck up.

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This is pretty much me as well. I don’t know the right word to describe it but it’s interesting and somewhat surprising to me to see the plethora of things everyone is finding to complain about with this team. Clear evidence of what I often say about our group of die-hard fans. There’s no stomach to tank. It doesn’t feel great losing but it’s necessary. I can find a lot of promise in the way it’s playing out, comparatively to most of our history. Between the overwhelming amount of injuries to key players and the loss of miles which was no fault of anyone but miles, that’s plenty enough excuse for me to justify the losing without blaming the coach, or the org, or how we report injuries etc. I’d love to see more Mark and Nick over Plumlee but that’s about my only gripe. End of the day, I’m all about the results and the result I’m looking for is top 4 lottery odds. We’re right on track as far as I’m concerned.

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35

Great win and team effort and rebound from that
Memphis debacle.

To get wish and stay in 14% club in 2nd half, trade Mello, pray Mello starts to suck, or get hurt again.
Mello Makes us better than those others at very bottom in 2nd half.

Keep us in #6 pick & 9% moves possible, as long as guarantee replacements worse.

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If health stays just ok, we’ll play our way out of the 14% club.

That’s why ownership and front office need to step in and define the direction for Cliff, rather than let the franchise continue to tread water in the late lottery picking, first round exit (if we can get there) no man’s land of the NBA.

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Pretty sure that’s not happening. Clifford is only going to go one direction, right to his last game in April.

At least the guys won’t have another play-in debacle this year. I think we’re beyond that possibility.

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I don’t know, man. Only 6 games behind the Wizard and 7.5 games behind Atlanta and 8 games behind Chicago. If all stays the same, I could see us making an unfortunate run at the end only to get blown out in our 3d game in a row.

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Hornets Law: Convince one year rental Cliff to tank, get rid of assets to stay top of lottery
86% chance to not get #1 and do not
…but is better odds than 90%+ to not get, & start foundation in place to tank for years until get lucky b4 OKC & SGA w/o all there picks

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Sadly, I’m almost certain you’re right.