2023-24 Hornets General Discussion Thread

I get it but at the same time looking at it merely from a business perspective. The team is barely a local event. Not even close to regional. Literally outside of us here and a dozen or so posters on realgm, nobody even realizes they are a team.

Jordan made money only because of the league as a whole. He did nothing to grow the Charlotte brand. He bought in at the absolute right time where streaming was eating into cable leaving sports as the only must see event. Therefore, networks paid exponentially more for rights to the point of way overvaluing the tv rights (as witnessed by Bally/Diamond and ESPN). Vaulations across the league and the league itself largely rose because of this and international expansion. This is where Jordan made his money.

I do get your point, but I strongly suspect that outside of our fan bubble, there is a much stronger case for relocating than staying. I would say Raleigh would even be a better market but that isn’t what I am speaking of here.

Wish I could take cred but that was @QC_Thundercats in the Hornets at Heat game thread.

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I think you are saying that we cannot judge a coach when the players done execute. I don’t believe you can judge the players when the coach does not put together a coherent plan. I’d also say that the same coach does not consistently have those players’ backs, in on-court challenge situations, public on court ridicule, and even sometimes ridicule in pressers. The latter two might be accepted for Larry Brown or Pop to do but they have freaking won at the NBA level, very different to get publicly dissed by a guy w/ a lifetime .400 record or worse.

I think he’s long created the bathwater he’s soaking in today. This goes back to the latter half of his first stint here where he either refused to, or didn’t understand how to put guys in the best place to succeed.

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Expecting a group of players, who are not competent defenders, to be competent defenders isn’t but so much on the coach. Sure, you want a coach to get the most out of his players. But expecting players to do something they cannot do is different.

Remember last season we had the weekly comments from terry rozier about “we just gotta start defending and rebounding, blah blah blah”?

I don’t think that them not being able to do those things is from a lack of effort or coaching insights.

Just as this roster’s ability is limited by the players, it’s also limited by Cliff’s deficiencies and shortcomings. I wish Cliff the best, and in an ideal world I think he would be a great guy to have as an assistant. But he’s just not the guy.

Cliff has no idea how to get the most out of his players, He run the last team into the ground and is doing it with this team. JB made the play in two times in a row with less talent, This team even hurt has more talent than the teams JB had. If we signed a decent back up center and changed coaches this would be a play in team this year. But Cliff would have to go.

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I’m not disagreeing with you on cliff, but I will wholeheartedly with every fiber in my being disagree with the notion that this is a play in team.

Even so, that isn’t my aspiration as a fan.

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I don’t think it’s one or the other thing. It’s the same as the Panthers, both the players team play and the coaching have been awful.

Injuries the #1 reason, personnel and coaching strategies are a severely ill fit, making whatever problems we have look worse.

Cliff was dealt a shitty hand no doubt. But it is more than that. Some coaches have all the knowledge and deep intricate understanding of the game, but are terrible executives. They can’t reach people, they can’t manage or lead grown men in battle. Some coaches don’t really have all advanced ideas and insight into the game, but know how to lead and get the most out of what they have. How to get the right message to the right person at the right time, to inspire players to play above themselves.

Cliff can’t inspire shit, and it’s obvious. Really sharp mind, would be an excellent 2nd hand man. He just needs to analyze data and provide it to the boss, and let a real coach deliver the right message to actually get a response.

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At this point, even Cliff has to be thinking just put me out of my misery.

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Bingo @Steelmatic

https://twitter.com/HornetsOnBally/status/1747824614548389941?t=w-ZfkrDMl8kETBpt_GIaRg&s=19

And that’s fine. We see it through different lenses. I have Cliff as the least egregious of the 3 problem areas (front office, player effort/drive/professionalism, coaching) but still a problem. While you have him higher on that list.

One thing’s for sure, all three have to be addressed, and it would have been great if a new GM was in place already so they could start the reshaping process before the looming trade deadline.

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Damn, dead man walking. I remember he used to get fired up about all the mistakes, get pissed at something, have a long response. Not that anyone would be happy about getting whooped for the 10th time in a row. But this is a guy with no answers, no ideas, nothing left.

Would not be surprised if he just resigns himself. I know he’s not a quitter, but sometimes you just gotta walk out of terrible situations.

Also, good on Ashley for always being able to read the room and not be pushy to get all the questions or follow ups in.

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92 total 3 pointers, is this just what the league has come to?

for sure

uhhh, no it isn’t. nobody takes this team seriously. the defense is so bad that you can just chuck up 50 threes a game, get the rebounds and swing it to the open guy.

sure the league is terrible right now for just watching ymca type hoisting of shots and yes something has to be done to the 3pt line or the pts for attempts, but this situation is a function of this poor team both offensively and defensively. this team is a “break night” for 85% of the league on the schedule.

Like 3rd worst team sitting their stud for a road game against us?

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Seeing Rozier mentioned as possible trade targets for Knicks, Heat, and Lakers. Maybe there will be some movement this trade deadline.

I keep hearing there is no market other than buyout for Hayward. I would take back salary for him if it came with pick or asset

yeah i’d entertain taking on some kind of salary back if it’s an interesting player. This is assuming that Rozier’s contract will be off the books next year due to being traded at the deadline.

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Thoughts here, I am genuinely asking.

The Lakers are predictably a mess because of LeBron of course. (a different discussion but his proxy gm’ing throughout his career has got to count on his resume in the goat “debate”)

If they traded for rozier, would d Russell be a good pairing with melo? Can Russell defend the stronger of the opponent pg/sg and let melo take the other? Russell seems to be a much better natural pg than terry which would allow a better melo/Russell pairing AND a better fit when melo is on the bench especially with Brandon.

There is also probably a way to slide miles into that trade (you know he would not decline it) and pick up more assets.

Question. Surely it’s been discussed here before. Does a “culture of sitting out games” develop on certain types of teams?

  1. Older, established players on excellent teams who know they will “turn it on” for the playoffs, when the games really matter for them.

  2. Players on embarrassing teams like ours. “Well, if you’re not playing, I don’t know why I should play through my bit of pain only to get destroyed yet again!” Kinda like more people calling in sick when morale is low.

Also, do you think some organizations with very little shot at the playoffs encourage players to sit through mild injuries as a form of tanking?

On sitting: absolutely it is a form of load management for well established professionals. It’s one of the disconnects between fans who don’t understand and the league. I always enjoy the dumb fan who says “these pros don’t care they are only in it for the money vs college kids”. However, you have to be careful with the turn it on in March approach. You can only do it with players who really have earned the right and ability to be able to pace that way.

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['Just working on the approach': How Lakers' D'Angelo Russell is improving his defense]

I don’t think he’s “that guy” but I like the way you’re thinking. Hachimura was my target as we need a good 4. Figuring out how to get a future LAL 1st would be nice too.