Off Season Changes?

You are likely correct on what the front office, instructed by MJ, wants to do. Signing Terry when we did, for what we did is an illustration of that. Again, I don’t think anyone is disputing the likely reality.

Moving Terry and bringing in a 3&D SG is what I and others want to do and think is the right thing to do. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen.

Same thing with evaluating potential draft picks. Essentially, it’s a pointless thing to do because we don’t know who will be available at our picks and if the front office would pick the guys we like if they’re there. But still, we voice our opinions.

A lot of the chat on here is about what we think and what we’d do, not what we think the front office will do.

And on Bouknight, he’s a 6th man style of player just as Terry is, IMHO, and that’s why I’d like to see Bouknight given proper minutes this coming season. Which is another reason for moving Terry, he and Bouknight do not compliment each other in the back court.

Again, all just opinion.

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Kitch is spot on with the bulk of my posts. It is what I think needs to happen and what I think will happen if those moves aren’t made not what I think will happen.

You just said what I have been saying for weeks . Only a lot better. MJ, Mitch and the organization all said we was building through the draft. It’s a process a slow build. The cap most don’t understand on hear. We even have a time line with our cap . Money going on and money coming off to off set the next three years . Even having the money to sign Melo. We losing nothing but roster fillers. And adding two good draft picks . Position wise where we pick.13th ,15th
Hayward who most hate on hear allows us to sign Melo. We move him now where is the Melo money coming from? He can at least be a decent sub . I can’t believe Terry talk who people say we need to move . The leader on the team 20ppg the dog type . Our best 3point shooter. And we have people who praise Bouknight scoring 4ppg . People saying ever day to play Bouknight more . Have you ever thought Bouknight sucks and that’s why JB didn’t play him. He can’t carry Terry’s jock strap on his best day. His body language sucks . His attitude sucks more . He will never be a 3andD player . He is way to weak and will never be a defender a dog per say. People say we need Mo Bamba who we can’t even trade for per the barging agreement.

People never talk about Plumlee and Oubre both great expiring’s added together could net a real good teir 2 player add in 15 then we got great pieces. A ton of teams want off the Luxury tax right now . Look at what Woods went four . We had way more than enough to get him if we wanted. Terry earns his contract . Sit Terry on the bench a play Bouknight . Bouknight is not even close to Oubre, Martin . So setting Terry isn’t going to earn Bouknight playing time. Thor and Kai with enough time might turn into something . But the key hear is enough time. But people on hear dismiss a growing system. We have a ton of long term talent allow it time to grow. Sorry for my rant but please give Mitch a little longer.

Paying Terry 4/96 not for being a 6-1 SG Gets buckets and for our cap and roster banking on being a plus starter playing next to LaMelo…as long as LaMelo becomes what FO wants.

Mitch continues to say in interviews: Offensive special, is going to be offensive stud for years in the NBA. Lamelo must get stronger with more stamina to stay on court and become a 2 way player for Hornets. JB laissezfair, stoic, professor style (sheesh F**** school) not working, KA approach different.

At Nets hit or miss depends on how individual player reacts to in your face style…but in one case took another super talent immature kid in his third year and within 2 years made into a much better defensive player and professional. D’Angelo Russell no defensive stud or man of year but Mitch banking on similair results with LaMelo.

I agree with you. But his limitations lead to a 7-10 seed based on the money he is making.

I see your point on Gordon. I would move him for expiring money if possible or a real center if that deal is there (which I doubt).

Terry + LaMelo does not equal a 2nd Rd playoff backcourt

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Come on that 7-10 seed is on everybody:

Melo for not giving a dang about defense
Gordo for being injured
Bouk for not living up to his lottery ranking and not giving Terry rest minutes
Mitch for thinking that Plumlee was enough
Plumlee for taking two steps backwards since being trade to us
Kelly for his cold streak
Hell I will even throw in PJ for being 2 inches too short!

I will give Terry, Miles, PJ (yeah I know listed twice) and even Gordo when NOT injured all the credit and praise in the world for showing up every night - well 90% of the time.

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See I just disagree. This team doesn’t have the talent, grit or in LaMelo’s case maturity/experience to win. So why keep going with it when melo will bolt if he isn’t on a legit conference finals team?

I base the majority of my postings on the reality that melo won’t stick around if they aren’t playing like the Heat or Celtics.

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Melo will be hear at least six more years under team control. So exactly what is your plan to take this team to the eastern conference finals . How other than the draft and legit small trades do we get their. I hear get rid of Terry , Trade Hayward. Give up draft picks.
Whats the plan?

He will force a trade 5 min after signing the max. Book it!

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I hear both sides of this debate and certainty understand the rationale of both viewpoints. Without question, cap considerations will force our hand on some tough decisions. But if that reality results in us needing to move someone in a salary dump, it needs to be Hayward, not Terry.

My sense is that most people likely agree with that, but that those who are advocating that we move Terry at all cost have resigned themselves to the notion that Gordon can’t be moved. That’s where I disagree. I just don’t accept that there is no scenario out there where Gordon isn’t tradable. Everyone said Wall was untradable, until he was traded. Everyone said Russ was untradable, until he was traded. Heck, we were even able to find someone willing to trade for Miles Plumlee when he was making $12.5 mil. I have to believe there’s a deal out there somewhere that will get us off of most of Hayward’s year 4 money.

I’m not opposed to trading Terry, but it needs to make sense. He’s way too talented and integral to our success to just sacrifice him at the salary cap altar. If he’s moved for anything less than comparable talent/assets then shame on everyone involved.

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I’ll even go further to say that I think a lot of people are actually underestimating Hayward’s value. He’s a highly skilled player with the one obvious wildcard being his health. But with just 2 years left on his deal, I could see a number of teams viewing that as being worth the gamble.

In a best case scenario, he’d fit perfectly as a third best player on a contending team. An older version of Wiggins. But even in a worst case scenario, he’s a big expiring contract after next season which converts to an asset a year from now.

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I agree that, if we want to move Gordon, it would be fairly easy. Gordon + Kelly for Westbrick + 3milly.

I hear this sentiment a lot and I get the concern from a historical black cloud over the Hornets standpoint. But I just don’t see it or have tooooo much fear of it myself. I mean what is the precedent for it?

Lebron stayed 7 years with the cavs before he left.
Carmelo stayed 8 years with Denver before he left.
Durant stayed 9 years with OKC before he left.
Davis stayed 7 years with NO before he left.
De’Aaron Fox 5 years in with a comparably incompetent franchise and no sign of forcing his way out yet.

Who is the star that has forced their way out 3 or 4 years in?

I get that Lamelo is “1 of 1”, the California kid etc. but I’m not there yet as far as thinking he’s going anywhere anytime soon.

That being said, I’m not saying we shouldn’t do what we reasonably can to set him up for success in a Hornets uniform more sooner than later. Im focused on the long term sustainable success and I think we’re doing a fairly good job building toward that with the path we’re on right now. I think Melo will at least give it 6/7 years to see where we can go before trying to bolt.

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Barring a miracle it looks like GS are the champs. They only have 8 guys under contract for next season and four of them take up all of their cap. I still think Plumlee + #13 + #15 might get Wiseman from them. It’s not like they needed him to win this trophy. With their cap situation they need rookie contracts to fill a lot of their roster. There will be plenty of veteran bigs willing to play for them next year on a cheap one year deal to get a ring. It’s worth a shot.

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Ok, let’s say your scenario works. How are you going to be able to offer both Lamelo and Wiseman the max?
I am pretty sure healthy Wiseman will demand max, and with Lamelo and Miles, it will be hard to retain him. I much rather get Wendell Carter Jr. or Mo Bamba.

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Thoroughly confused why one would place aspirational value on Wiseman presently. What have we seen to warrant it?

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Truth

Well said

I think Hayward & Terry are two very different beasts.

Hayward’s contract fits perfectly with LaMelo’s contract timeline, as pointed out by @Dav, but what will the opportunity cost be to us if he’s not moved before his contract expires?
Miles can be signed, that’s ok. Cody, probably can, but there’s little chance we’d be able to retain PJ.
His contract also precludes us from potentially advantageous trades where we take on a contract to facilitate a deal.
All the while he plays the same position as Miles. And if you move Miles to the #4 then PJ goes to the bench. All of this while he’s only able to play 2/3rds of the games and is broken by the time the playin/playoffs come around.
Hayward is a very good player, one I like a lot, but he was never the right player for us and the opportunity cost of him being here will hold this franchise back.

Terry is a different beast. Agree with @Dav again, he’s a dog (on offence) and gets crucial baskets for us. He is a potential 6th man of the year.
I keep harping back to the 6th man thing, because it’s important we get some balance in our starting unit. Where is the D in the back court? You get little of it from LaMelo and little of it from Terry, which pisses me off because Terry can defend reasonably well when he wants to. It’s why I wanted Moody in the last draft. 1. Ball, 2. Moody & 6. Terry works. Moody compliments the other two’s defensive deficiencies, so can play with both. But you’d likely see out games with LaMelo & Terry on the floor. In this scenario, Terry still gets him minutes and we’re a better balanced team. I’m not saying Moody is the be all and end all, he isn’t close to the level of player Terry is and it certainly doesn’t have to be him, but he fits what we need so well and he was available.

Which brings me onto Bouknight. Again @Dav, agree with your assessment of him. To my mind, he’s another potential 6th man, not a starter alongside LaMelo. The only backcourt player he compliments is Cody, and you’re not spending too many floor minutes with those two in your back court. All this to say, one of Terry and Bouknight needs to be moved to bring in a player with a skill set we need.
The advantage of moving Terry is two fold. 1. He’s a good player and should net a good return. 2. Our cap will be lower and more flexible. The disadvantages are 1. We loose a good player and 2. We loose a dog who has stepped up and shown leadership. The only advantage of moving Bouknight is ridding ourselves of a redundant skill set. I can’t see how we get good value as he didn’t get a chance to play last season.

In a perfect world, obviously Hayward is gone. The keeping Terry scenario would see us move Bouknight (and pieces) and bring in a 3&D SG who starts and sees minutes alongside both LaMelo and Terry, while Terry becomes 6th man of the year. That can work very well, as long as his ego doesn’t get bruised (see Ginobili). We’re then looking at a big 3 of LeMelo, Terry & Miles for the next handful of seasons. That works if you have a low cost starting option at SG. So Ball, Moody(eg), Miles, PJ & Bamba(eg); Terry, McDaniels & PG/Thor/Kai is a well balanced roster with no £30m contracts, plus the draft pick(s) to be added.

I’d personally rather a soft reset, wipe the cap slate clean and give Kenny a younger, relatively inexpensive roster to develop his patterns of play with and work out where he wants to add veteran, expensive pieces. That’s my personal preference.
I’m also absolutely fine with keeping Terry, I like the guy a lot but I think doing so would restrict a KA retool a little bit, and would necessitate moving Bouknight at a loss and involve moving Terry to the Ginobili role. If he’s cool with that and his influence in the lock room is strong, let’s go down that path.
The only certainty I have is Bouknight & Terry do not belong on the same roster if you hope to be able to defend in the back court.

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I am not saying he will force his way out, I am saying if the roster is still only 7-10 seed, he will. I am saying with Hayward, Terry and miles making up over half the cap + melo at max making up another 30+% the roster is locked into a very mediocre team. He will then want out starting grumbling about early December.

Every star you listed stayed because the team was at or threatening the conference finals or finals.

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If we plan to compete, then Keep Hayward. If we plan to retool you ship him out. I still think that we should keep to use him as a big expirinf plus talent for someone next offseason or something.

He gives you more than you will get back in all likelihood. Not like your average big deal like this.

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