Yep, this is the absolute worst case scenario. I do hope the front office stands firm and doesn’t cave.
Maybe I’m naive, but I don’t see there being much of a market out there for Miles. Speaking purely from a PR perspective, it’s one thing for a franchise to resign a player who has done something horrendous, as it can be framed as supporting his rehabilitation. But, if an outside team signs him, it borderline condones, and certainly dismisses the seriousness of the actions.
So here’s what I just don’t understand why people want to bring back both PJ and Miles. If we stick with the projected 19 and 29 to PJ and Miles.
2023-24:
Melo 40m
Miles 29m
Rozier 26
PJ 19
That’s 114 million on 4 players. For a team that refuses to get into the luxury tax…what?? And if I reduce Miles and PJ to 25m and 16m that 114m goes to 107m. Still, that’s way too much money.
I’d bet there will be. This is a thin free agent class and there are teams that may be willing to go for it. There are some desperate teams out there right now.
I feel like you keep repeating this over and over without seeing or understanding peoples’ responses. Nobody wants this - even the ones that want to bring them back, do not want it at that price.
This is on the high side, but is more reasonable, and does make a yearly difference. But it still misses the nuance on why this path may still be better than letting both go. Hear me out.
Incentivize the shit out of Miles contract. Have a team option for the 2nd year, 3rd, 4th. Team bonuses will keep his contract lower if we suck, and if we do, we can cut bait after any year, or can control a trade and get value back.
But also, you talk about developing the core of Melo/Miller/Mark. 100% agreement across the forum and all rational Hornets fans. You know whats best for development? Getting into the playoffs and tasting what real basketball is like.
Even if those 2 vets aren’t the ones to take us into the promised land, getting to the first round, making it to the 2nd often unlocks an extra level to the league’s stars. They have their weaknesses super exposed, and can laser focus on it, the learn how much extra fight it takes to keep going.
Canning your decent free agents sets the treadmill back at the beginning, and if your new free agents don’t pan out either, do you reset again? And again? Stifling the playoff development of our core? Then what, blow it all up and start over again?
Big no to all of that. Neither path is guaranteed success. Both paths have their risks. But both paths are every bit as valid as what you keep trying to hammer in So hopefully you finally understand where a lot of us are coming from.
I don’t want this hornets franchise to be another cap strapped team again. Our cap situation has absolutely sucked.
You know what kind of things cap strapped teams do?
Trade John Collins for Rudy gay and a 2nd round pick. Teams in bad cap situations don’t get treated with any favors. Which is largely why Mitch hasn’t really done anything. Because trading rozier or Hayward is a 100% salary dump and the hornets would basically get nothing out of it except opening salary cap.
I am cool with picking between PJ and Miles, athough they are 2 very different players.
But we have to retain one. Losing both for nothing would be a failure and I even think that losing one in a non-S&T scenario is still a loss
Ah ah ah, you’re deflecting. Atlanta was stupid. Shouldn’t have traded for Dejounte. That trapped them. They also never held Trae accountable for his style of play, which also traps them.
But they also did make an Eastern Conference Final and are in the playoffs most years, something I’d love to experience.
Again, don’t miss the point many people have tried to make and you keep glossing over. 2 decent free agents for regular prices aren’t trapping the team if we have trade options, opt out clauses, expirings, plethora of young prospects. Making the playoffs is the most important thing for growth for our young core.
I’m not deflecting, I’m pulling in another example to help illustrate my point. edit: I thought that would be considered critical thinking, but I guess it’s just something negative.
With all that we’ve gone through as hornets fans, I can’t believe having a true development season would be so controversial. A season really committed to development. And not the front office trying to accidentally back their way into the playoffs as a 7-8 seed if EVERYTHING goes right and NO injuries happen. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.
And I still can’t get an answer as to why we should tie up 70-75m in salary cap to Rozier, Miles, and PJ.
That’s a lot of cap space considering Melo is about to be making 40m+.
That’s all I’m saying. I’m tired of seeing the team mediocre and against the salary cap since this is not a luxury tax team. I just don’t understand how bringing back those same players and being up against the salary tax AGAIN, is going to so dramatically move the needle.
And yes, I’m repeating myself because the team keeps repeating itself and doing the same thing over and over and over. And for some reason, we’re all trying to sit around and say that Miles and PJ have this magical higher ceiling that other people outside of us don’t seem to see. And signing them is justified and painted with this brush of, “well, we’re charlotte and we have to”.
Gordon Hayward (sign and trade), 2020
Four years, $120 million
Charlotte’s run of bad front office decisions has spanned many years, but the biggest blunder might have been signing Hayward for $120 million over four years in a sign-and-trade with the Celtics. Hayward has dealt with a variety of different injuries and has never been able to match numbers he recorded with the Utah Jazz after a gruesome leg injury in his first game with the Celtics. Charlotte took a swing on Hayward – and missed. – Friedell
Okay, but we all know where you stand because you bring up the exact same point every time. And I’ve seen numerous posters, including myself, try to address each point you make, which I can tell you don’t acknowledge otherwise your responses might add in that new consideration or understanding of the alternate viewpoint, instead of saying we have our heads stuck in the sand.
Again, nobody can say your viewpoint is wrong, but you keep characterizing us as WANTING to be stuck in cap hell when the nuances we describe keep whizzing past your ear. Reread my post above where I explain how there are outs.
Honestly, really dude? Come on, don’t be that guy. Nobody’s coming for your head, just be easy.
Again, something nobody is saying. Melo is starting and getting a ton of time. Mark is a starter now. Miller might be a starter, if not right away, sometime soon. Playing is development. Bryce and Thor play a lot.
And once again, a point I made that was glossed over, the most important development tool any player can receive is actual playoff experience. So if we get there, Melo could get a taste, a hunger, make a Luka like jump.
It might be good for our young core, who already are playing, to develop good habits while winning, vs. developing some negative habits while still losing 75% of the games.
They revving up a S&T candidate to throw in on a deal?
He’s a low key nice bench piece to have. Not a bad salary figure at all.
Then don’t come at me with your first sentence that’s loaded with smugness of “ah, you’re deflecting”.
I don’t think anyone is coming for my head, but don’t throw smug comments into your lead in of your response. I personally don’t mind having a good old fashioned passionate clashing of opinions at all. But don’t throw shade with smug comments and then pretend it’s on me when I respond.
That’s actually an example of deflection.
We’re good brother 
. I’m totally cool with not agreeing on some of these core tenets of the state of the franchise. But when we win, we’ll both enjoy it together my man. Because we’re long overdue for winning and success, and diehard fans like us really deserve it. We just want wins and success and we’re both tired of the long term status who. It’s a passionate debate, and that’s okay.
Yes, first of all, I’m good with everyone. Got no problem with different opinions. Me and Chef disagree all the time, but that old crusty bastard always keeps coming back to the site. Or maybe I’m the old crusty bastard… But we keep it easy all the time, no problem.
I honestly thought “ah, ah, ah” is a playful tame response. If I tried that on a basketball court, I’d get clowned for it.
But the reason for it was 2-fold. I remember writing a long post addressing each of your points awhile back, but today you post the same way with the same confusion, without having gained any insight or understanding from a previously stated alternative point of view.
So I again took the time to address each of your points, and your response was quickly dismissive without understanding the nuance of any points made, going straight back to the “everybody else is insane” for wanting to take a different approach. You even nicknamed it the RIB approach, which I don’t adopt in its entirety because of my stated nuances, but thought it was kind of a fun banter here.
Trying to flip it and saying, no it is in fact me who is deflecting, that’s another “come on bro.” You are asking a question to the board. I respond to your concerns. You ignore it. I call out the points that were ignored, hoping you’d go back to address it. There was no deflection on my part in any of that. I would like a good old debate, but you didn’t actually debate anything, just restated your premise.
No smugness in anything I’m saying.
This isn’t my fight, but I’d like to add a perspective here if I could because I think it speaks to the overall environment that we are all a part of. @powellrmp, I’ve seen you post recently that you feel you aren’t liked by many posters on the board, or something to that effect. I don’t want you to feel that way, but I would like for you to understand why some people may feel your approach is off-putting at times. I will admit that I have on several occasions. A recent example is the “head in the sand” comment that you made in reference to the varying opinions of roster construction. QC referenced this as well. Suggesting that people who hold a certain opinion have their “head in the sand” is tantamount to insulting their intelligence. It’s basically saying, you lack the ability to think deeply about an issue, and after careful consideration, arrive at a valid conclusion that is different than mine. That’s insulting, and most people don’t appreciate that. Particularly since this is one of the most thoughtful and informed sports message boards I’ve ever participated in.
As a case in point, I posed a question to Chef on a different thread about his concern over retaining Melo and his thoughts on how we manage our roster. I posed the question because I know we have different opinions on how we should build out the roster and his stated concern seemed incongruent with other opinions he had offered previously. But my starting point was not that his head was in the sand, because I know Chef to be one of the brightest and most thoughtful posters on this forum. Instead, my starting point was, this is a bright guy and I can’t reconcile his last post with his overall philosophy on roster construction, therefore I’m genuinely curious as to how he’s thinking about this. Or at least I hope that’s the vein in which it was received. While tone and intent can certainly be misconstrued in a forum such as this, I think it’s vitally important that we take the time to as best we can, not to convey things in a tone that’s is dismissive or disrespectful, or that insults the intelligence of other posters. We can certainly question, challenge disagree, etc., but word choice is critical. I also consider you to be one of the thoughtful and insightful posters and I think the content of what you bring to this forum is valuable, even though I don’t always agree with what you have to say. It’s the delivery that I often have a problem with. I don’t say this to pile on or pick a fight. But I did want to try to articulate why it may be that you feel you aren’t well liked.
Missed a year.
Will not play opener as expected, and not until game 11 in November.
NBA & players avoid issue again, not have to deal with in October Domestic Violence Awaremess Month. Move along nothing to see.
no matter it and Klutch want from us, move on or lance stephonson MLE this 3/33 million, 2nd & 3rd year our option.
I saw an article today they said that Miles is expecting “much more than MLE $$”
I personally wouldn’t give him more than 4/60 for all the shit he put the franchise through. I am hoping we get him at less than that and feel if we can retain him and PJ for $35 mil per year or less it is a nice win
I’m not flipping anything. I’m just stating what I see is happening. You said that I deflected, but interestingly used deflection in your own post. We have a different account of that, and that’s okay. I’m moving on past it, it’s all good man.
