The PG Question

Hornets Talk
1

So ever since the Kemba trade, I always felt Terry was perhaps a temporary signing to 1) save face in losing Kemba, and 2) for a potential trade piece to get good value back.

And of course, this was always under the assumption that we should definitely resign Graham because he was a hidden gem we uncovered in the second round, and his passing and shooting was much better than we ever expected.

But, here was a thought that has been creeping in my mind. Terry of course played out of his mind yesterday, and has been looking good for a long while. And because we drafted Ball as the potential franchise PG of the future, then there is only one other PG spot to be had.

Are we sure that Devonte should be the choice to keep between the 2 guys? Like, when Graham is on fire, its great, and his vision is top notch. But to become a good playoff caliber team, you need some dogs that can get you a bucket. That is absolutely Terry, and now Gordon. I don’t know if you can just give the ball to Graham and expect multiple buckets at the end of a tight game. Terry can get his shot off at any time.

Plus with Ball’s great vision, is it better to have two great passers on the team who aren’t necessarily able to get their own bucket with Graham and Ball, or is it better to have an elite passer and a go to scorer?

So in other words, should our priority actually be more focused on trying to resign Terry long term to match with Ball and Hayward, and maybe get some value from Graham this year while we can, rather than pay a good sum for Graham and hope he keeps improving to Terry’s level. (And for context, Terry is only 26 until March, while Devonte turns 26 in February).

I really like both guys, but know we can only keep one long term. Which one is actually better to keep on the team for the future?

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2

I guess I’ve never looked at this as a choice between Rozier or Graham. I see them as two completely different players. Terry is not a PG in my opinion. He is a scorer, plain and simple. He functions best in a role where he can go hunt shots. That’s his forte and asking him to run the the offense and facilitate takes him away from what he does best. Graham, on the other hand is a legitimate playmaker who also has the ability to score in bunches. He tends to run a bit hot and cold, as we saw last night, but even when he’s having an off game offensive, he can still impact the team in a positive way as evidenced by his double digit assists. I think they complement each other well and our commitment to one need not occur at the exclusion of the other.

I’ve argued many times that Rozier is undervalued and I’m glad he wasn’t moved as trade filler just because. That being said, I do think we need to extend Graham. The truth is, we don’t know what we have in Melo yet. If he ever does become a star, it likely won’t be this year or next, so the Graham/Rozier pairing is what we’ve got to ride with. They aren’t quite Dame and CJ, but we could do a lot worse.

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3

I think you sign both because ball is at least two years away from replacing either and that isn’t a knock on him.

Between the two being paid 15-18 mil, I take terry. To answer the question.

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4

I guess this is what I was more getting at. This years free agent young guys were getting $18-24M over 3-4 years. We could resign Graham at that $18ish amount if he has another 18 and 8 year, but does that mean keeping Terry for one more year and letting him walk? Or do we plan on getting Terry probably $20M based on his current production and his more expensive free agent year, and letting Graham go.

Or is $36-$40M invested in the backcourt worth it for our team until Ball’s big contract is due? You can never have too many playmakers, and maybe being able to balance large contracts that are still moveable may be a good investment.

I guess I was always under the premise Terry was the sacrificial lamb once all our contract renewals started to come up, but with the way he’s been playing, is it better to keep him over some the upcoming young guys?

5

I think the huge advantage to landing Ball if he fills out defensively and shakes out favorably as an offensive engine is that you pay little penalty for playing either a Terry or Devonte’ due to their size. I also think you have three discrete archetypes with Tae, Terry and LaMelo and you can conceivably play all three in some situations (think last year at MEM but plug in LaMelo in for Malik) and you definitely can play any pair of them.

Now, that’s all assuming you aren’t breaking the bank for re-signing Terry down the road or signing/extending Tae. If either of them start to approach the 20m mark then, we likely are out-priced. But I am still hopeful that we can work an extension with Tae (which would cap at $54m over 4 years) or signing him as a FA to something south of $16m a year.

6

I think you have to give ball every chance to mature into a good player. Having no pressure to face starters for 2-3 years is a great way to do that. If he matures and develops earlier, great. Good problem to have.

7

Well hopefully we see a meteoric rise from Ball this season that would make this question less daunting, but I think I’d pass on shoveling Graham or rozier big dollars. And yes, terry is the classic combo guard and not a true PG in the sense.

I love Graham the person and player, particularly the underdog story. But Charlotte has a celebrated history of bad signings and poor salary cap management and I’d like to avoid it again in the future

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8

As much as I like devonte, his value is under $12mil per (ideally 8-10). On a good team, terry is the guy that wins at least one game in the finals. Actually alot like jason terry or lou wil

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9

But do you really think a guy that averaged 18 points and 8 assists is going for $8-$10M these days? De’Anthony Melton just signed for $8.5M per year after averaging a whopping 7 points and 3 assists on 29% from 3. Clarkson and KCP signed for $13M per year. Joe Harris getting $18M. VanVleet, while more valuable of course, averaged the same 18 and 7, and is rewarded with $21M.

If Devonte has another good year, he’s in Joe Harris money range I’d think. I know that you personally wouldn’t pay him that much, I just don’t think his range is in the 8-10M though.

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10

With the now well established notion that we have to overpay for free agents, I don’t think it’s realistic to think that Devonte’ would take a 20% haircut to play here. He’s easily worth his extension value, he’s likely worth a fair bit more on the open market. If we’re not paying that, we’re not trying to keep him.

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My point with was, given his limitations and his game, I place his value at that range. More than that and he severely limits your roster and on court success.

I think he will definitely get 15-20mil though

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I don’t have an opinion worth listening to, but I think it’s very reasonable to have $40M tied up in starting caliber point guards, because that’s where the league seems to be add now. And assuming we don’t give Graham anything stupid and he continues to be in the area of 18-8, we will definitely be able to move him if he doesn’t fit in a couple of years.

In my mind, you need to have three guards at least that can run the floor and hit 3s in the modern NBA.

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13

There is no longer any question. I’m riding with Scary Terry from here on out. Thats my guy.

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14

After getting over being butthurt trading Kemba…basically the start of this season…I think I’m leaning towards Terry too. Probably not fair til Devonte gets past his struggles, but I think it’d be difficult to build a championship team around him. He’s not Steph.

Even with that I’m feeling short term. Terry isn’t my ideal SG even with Ball.

15

Right now, I’d lean Terry but I’d want to wait until atleast midway through the season before I even considered trading Devonte.

16

Terry is playing well and playing hard. He is someone who can start alongside Devonte or Ball.
If you have all three on the roster next season, and don’t add a quality SG, then Ball likely comes into the starting rotation and Devonte moves to the beach.
As long as we don’t overpay that’s a good three guard rotation.
Ultimately I think Terry’s a very good 6th man in this league but I’m more than happy to have him starting.

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17

Yeah, I like all three, and if we could keep them for good money, that would be great.

Although not a direct comparison, Graham seems kind of like a George Hill guard, good enough to start anywhere, can go off at times, but is more like a steady hand that can shoot. And Terry seems more of the Lou Williams/Jamal Crawford type combo guard who can go out and get buckets.

Now which one you prefer off the bench, a high scoring punch, or a steady hand to continue starter level play with the second unit is up for debate. Once Ball gets his sea legs, I have no doubt he takes over full time PG duties. I guess the good thing of him being 6’8 is that the guard next 2 him doesn’t have to be as big, so you could have either one next to him.

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18

So the next part of the exercise is to name the max salary that is acceptable for devonte and Terry.

For me it is 30 mil between the two. Max.

Ideally graham is 9 mil and Terry is 16 mil

19

I think we trade Graham now while value is still up. We add Monk and a 2nd round big . For a good sg or Big. We then use Riddler as our 3rd point . We still have two years of Terry and Mello

But this would be a good time to cash in some value

20

Who would be your trade targets?