I don’t buy that, winning heals much and losing raises all sorts of rough edges. John has a lot riding on his free agency. If his perception is that Trae is hurting his ability to get a fat payday, it’s going to hit him different.
I wonder how much it would take to get John Collins?
From my research and what I’ve gathered, I think John Collins is in the right here. Trae seems pretty immature and childish.
After Collins got on trae in a film session for casually walking the ball up the court and not getting the team into the offense, trae comes out and intentionally stinks up the game. On only 9 shots he puts up 7pts/3ast/5rb/7TOs.
And why should Collins not get pissed off? This is his livelihood and what he’s worked his life for, and he doesn’t want a cocky little shit like Young to fuck that up. I watched some hawks games and I don’t like young’s attitude or demeanor on the floor. He got t’d up for being a baby during one of the games I watched
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I agree with you on young. I am not sure that he isn’t a taker ie his success is at the teams success
Dislike may be a bit strong, but it is a fact that John is quite frustrated with the fit between himself and Trae for all the reasons that have been mentioned.
John would be a perfect fit here. Would love for Mitch to figure out a way to make that happen and create the east coach version of lob city with JC and Melo.
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I keep hearing those John Collins whispers. Is it really that bad there? I thought he was part of the future in Atlanta.
If he’s available, I’d take him over Bagley for sure. They can take one of PJ/Miles, a Martin bro, one of our centers that can fit with Trae better, or whatever. We can run with Melo, Terry, Gordon, Collins, and PJ/Miles.
Isn’t Collins up for a new contract?
Yes, Collins up for a new big contract.
would not give up pj or miles to get him.
i would definitely take him and think he would be a good add. i am always leery of drug guys though. especially paying big long term money.
I would give up both PJ and Miles to get him. While they’re both solid, neither has star potential. JC is basically the best of Miles and PJ combined into one player. Will be interesting to see how Atl plays this though. They clearly don’t want to give him a max but they certainly won’t lose him for nothing. Curious to see if they let him hit RFA and grudgingly match an offer beyond their price range or go the trade route.
But didn’t you always say we couldn’t have both PJ and Miles because they were too duplicative?
If there was a choice between:
A) PJ and Collins
B) Miles and Collins
C) PJ and Miles
I’d think A would have to be a Usain Bolt lead in the final 10 meters, with B being the other Jamaican. Granted, I’ve only seen highlight plays of Collins, and don’t know how he is day to day. But I’ll listen to whatever the Deacon experts @DemonDeaCat and @Eastley say about it.
That was my position until miles woke up one morning and ate a bowl larry bird wheaties and is now a dead eye three ball shooter.
I need a buckets deep dive on collins.
Yeah, for me the call is who has a better future with the club.
PJ always seemed to have more skill/fundamentals/understanding of the game. Having more guys like that normally translates to a better team. Being a nice shooter who can also bang down low was definitely welcome. Having a slow start, but Miles also had a disappointing 2nd year before making a jump. I can allow PJ to go through struggle and make improvements too.
Miles biggest talent is that raw athleticism. In a league full of athletic guys, he’s in that top tier of explosiveness (while PJ’s athleticism comes across as below average to me). That athleticism allows him to have those 15+ rebound games, to be able to get to the basket at will and get fouls called, and if Miles’ 3 ball is his new baseline, then he can only go up from here.
So, a smart, skilled teammate with lower athleticism, vs. explosive athlete who shows good growth potential. And not unnoticed is Miles synergy with Melo. I thought PJs game would take off with the rookie, but its Miles who’s got that burst. Maybe because Miles expects the lob at any time, so he attacks the rim and is ready whenever he’s near the bucket.
Collins adds size and athleticism, which also would go great with Melo’s skill set. I think he’d be worth it at the expense of one of our young uns. Or keep both and go for Bagley I guess.
I think Miles and PJ are both solid rotation/fringe starter type guys. Miles has elite athleticism which makes him unstoppable in transition, and has become a capable spot up shooter. But he still lacks that next gear of being able to create his own shot off the dribble which will limit his offensive ceiling. I do think he has tremendous defensive upside.
PJ has a solid inside out game but lacks the elite athleticism to ever dominate on either end. At his ceiling he’s probably a Millsap but I’m not sure he ever gets there.
I had the opportunity to watch all of Collins’ college games in person and have followed him throughout his career in the league. I think his game is still evolving and he hasn’t reached his ceiling yet. He’s got good strength/size, elite athleticism and has added a 3-pt shot. He also offers good rim protection however he does need to improve overall as a defender. He doesn’t seem to have great defensive instincts in space and that been a problem from college until now. But he’s a consistent 20/10 guy and I believe a future star. As for the drug suspension, that was disappointing but I had the chance to get to know him personally when he was at Wake. He truly is a good human being so I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt that it was a one time misstep and not indicative of his character. I love our guys but if we could somehow turn them into Collins I think he’d be the missing piece to round out our lineup.
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Putting on my @buckets hat to play with charts and numbers:
Saw some charts on twitter. Haven’t dived too far into RAPTOR or WAR on fivethirtyeight, but starting with the Hornets, some surprising numbers:
Devonte’ surprisingly having some of the best defensive numbers outside of a Martin. Once his offense comes back, I guess he’ll have even more of a positive impact.
Speaking of the Martins, we just need to pick one. I think Caleb is the better shooter, so just keep him and let Cody go, especially if their defense is pretty close.
Melo, Gordon, and Terry are obviously best on offense, but with Melo’s impact really jumping off. Once he learns defense, his impact is gonna shoot through the roof.
Oh and Biz… 
(Also, team is severely lacking in bigs, a good one could bump the team up into good playoff territory)
As for the trade targets, I already was pumping up Collins way over Bagley for sure, but this chart makes clear that Collins is the choice 100 times out of 100.
And as bad as Biz’s numbers are, he’s looking way down on Bagley, who is somehow just one player above dead last in the entire league this year.
Right above Bagley is Killian and Okoro, who probably would’ve been Hornets if the basketball gods didn’t finally grant us a reprieve for once. Just a few draft slots makes an entire world of difference of the potential future of your franchise going forward. (And still can’t believe Wolves thought a high volume shooter like Edwards would be better with KAT and Dlo than Melo.)
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Good buckets impression. Definitely a “buckets in junior high impression” but you painted an excellent painting. Collins does look like one of those but low guys who could get better in charlotte. I really don’t like trae as the build around guy especially for a player like collins.
I will say, last night was the first time since the opener that it looked like melo’s shot was broken. He looked like he was just flinging it at the basket on his three ball. I wonder if a reversion towards his norm is coming. It could definitely also be the nba schedule is wearing him down. Interesting to watch how he adjusts.
I believe there were two interesting parts to this last night. A) he came in earlier and without his play-date Miles due to Terry’s early foul trouble. B) the Knicks looked like they absolutely had tape on him. If you watch the first few layup attempts, he was being played for the hand switch if I recall correctly. Thought it was Randle but might have been Robinson that didn’t try to block the hand with the ball but waited to swat the off hand which I thought was pretty incredible. And they did it more than once. I don’t know how much the subbing early played in - might be zero, but interesting to contemplate for all the folks screaming he hast to start 
Ball still found a way to be highly effective with rebounds and assists but to me, I just figured he was rattled they were playing his tendencies.
Noel. Was definitely timing those layups. Great points zig, I remember thinking about how melo would do when terry went out.
I also think devonte is adjusting to hayward. I think it might explain his early struggles. He seemed much more comfortable the past two games
Tried my best. Used to do more stats stuff before I had kids. Now I just blow smoke, gesture broadly, and hope my point makes sense.
I know @eshelmon used to be another stat guy here. Maybe we need to recruit some young person here with no kids to take on the analytics title. Adamzig, send out the bat signal.
To me, it seems while his upper body form is not pretty, its a quick, easy, and consistent motion. Reggie Miller and Shawn Marion could put on a clinic about successful ugly shooting.
The biggest issue is his legs. He tends to do that one legged swing, which is a bad habit that just needs to be trained away. His ball has good arc and seems an accurate touch when he’s set. But swinging that leg will throw off his consistency until he learns a more up and down movement. It may take a season or two, but I think he’ll be in the 40% shooting range once he cleans it up.
Thats actually pretty crazy if he’s showing up at the top of a scouting report already. Then again, it is Thibs who’s obsessive about this kind of stuff. But its good either way since he’ll learn early in his career how to adjust and have a counter or 3 ready.
Speaking of scouting reports, that Melo-Miles pick and roll set are killing defenses. The one with Melo moving right, Miles slipping the screen, Melo needling a pass through the defenders, and then the thunderous tomahawk on someones head. It happened like twice in a row in the 4th last night, and seems its been a highlight every game. I know that play is on film, I wonder if there’s something subtle in the setup that keeps fooling defenders.
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Ahh, dad debating. Funny how that happens once they turn 2. A string of 106 consecutive"why?" questions will do that
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Not really a rumour but more of a suggestion. Thinking if Larry Nance is a reachable target for us. Perhaps Zeller + Monk + 2nd as a starter. Who says no?